1 00:00:00,140 --> 00:00:14,910 [Music] 2 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:21,830 um 3 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:30,790 [Music] 4 00:00:34,870 --> 00:00:32,870 now you're electrifying hosts of 5 00:00:43,990 --> 00:00:34,880 exploring the bazaar 6 00:00:46,790 --> 00:00:44,000 timothy beckley and tim schwartz 7 00:00:48,229 --> 00:00:46,800 your voice down don't even whisper you 8 00:00:51,830 --> 00:00:48,239 know they say the walls have 9 00:00:53,029 --> 00:00:51,840 ears but i i don't understand 10 00:00:55,189 --> 00:00:53,039 what are we doing here in the 11 00:00:56,549 --> 00:00:55,199 headquarters of the cia in langley 12 00:00:59,270 --> 00:00:56,559 proposing is 13 00:01:01,349 --> 00:00:59,280 agents so we can go through their files 14 00:01:04,310 --> 00:01:01,359 and see if they have any information 15 00:01:06,070 --> 00:01:04,320 on the supposed suicide of james forrest 16 00:01:09,590 --> 00:01:06,080 the secretary of defense 17 00:01:12,630 --> 00:01:09,600 under president truman oh 18 00:01:14,230 --> 00:01:12,640 i remember that he went head down into 19 00:01:16,789 --> 00:01:14,240 the pavement he 20 00:01:17,670 --> 00:01:16,799 fell jumped or was pushed out of a 21 00:01:20,469 --> 00:01:17,680 window 22 00:01:22,950 --> 00:01:20,479 i know that officially it was a suicide 23 00:01:25,270 --> 00:01:22,960 they said he had a nervous breakdown 24 00:01:26,710 --> 00:01:25,280 but there's a lot of people including 25 00:01:29,830 --> 00:01:26,720 our guest tonight 26 00:01:32,710 --> 00:01:29,840 think that it was murder yep supposedly 27 00:01:35,270 --> 00:01:32,720 he was on the board of the mj-12 group 28 00:01:36,310 --> 00:01:35,280 formed shortly after the ufo crash at 29 00:01:39,350 --> 00:01:36,320 roswell 30 00:01:41,910 --> 00:01:39,360 okay well i say we tiptoe the hell out 31 00:01:44,950 --> 00:01:41,920 of here and get back to the kcr 32 00:01:45,590 --> 00:01:44,960 studio before some spook throws us out 33 00:01:48,149 --> 00:01:45,600 the window 34 00:01:48,950 --> 00:01:48,159 all right put your sunglasses back on in 35 00:01:51,190 --> 00:01:48,960 your 36 00:01:52,870 --> 00:01:51,200 black hat and let's let's head out the 37 00:02:05,190 --> 00:01:52,880 door just be quiet 38 00:02:08,389 --> 00:02:07,590 well we're out of there did anybody 39 00:02:10,790 --> 00:02:08,399 follow us 40 00:02:12,949 --> 00:02:10,800 well it's hard it's hard to say we've 41 00:02:15,570 --> 00:02:12,959 always got somebody following us 42 00:02:18,710 --> 00:02:15,580 somebody's always watching me 43 00:02:22,229 --> 00:02:18,720 [Laughter] 44 00:02:23,990 --> 00:02:22,239 maybe you well because nobody wants 45 00:02:27,030 --> 00:02:24,000 nobody wants to watch nobody wants to 46 00:02:30,229 --> 00:02:27,040 watch me i'm the handsomer of the two 47 00:02:34,150 --> 00:02:30,239 yeah there you go no no not really hey i 48 00:02:38,150 --> 00:02:34,160 got a bone to pick tonight okay 49 00:02:42,710 --> 00:02:38,160 with somebody this bs by 50 00:02:45,030 --> 00:02:42,720 mark schmuckelberg from facebook 51 00:02:45,910 --> 00:02:45,040 really irritated the hell out of me 52 00:02:48,949 --> 00:02:45,920 today 53 00:02:52,470 --> 00:02:48,959 he's on tv saying that 54 00:02:54,550 --> 00:02:52,480 he's against censorship and nobody 55 00:02:55,670 --> 00:02:54,560 should be censored well he's a 56 00:02:59,030 --> 00:02:55,680 bold-faced 57 00:03:02,030 --> 00:02:59,040 liar tim and you know why you know why 58 00:03:04,070 --> 00:03:02,040 right we can't even post a link to the 59 00:03:06,710 --> 00:03:04,080 conspiracy journal on 60 00:03:07,589 --> 00:03:06,720 facebook because it goes against 61 00:03:11,190 --> 00:03:07,599 community 62 00:03:14,790 --> 00:03:11,200 that 63 00:03:18,149 --> 00:03:14,800 we talk about bigfoot and ufos in 64 00:03:18,710 --> 00:03:18,159 time travel what the hell is wrong with 65 00:03:21,509 --> 00:03:18,720 that 66 00:03:23,509 --> 00:03:21,519 he's got some problem with bigfoot well 67 00:03:27,270 --> 00:03:23,519 bigfoot should shove his foot up where 68 00:03:33,750 --> 00:03:30,830 uh i agree i agree 69 00:03:36,789 --> 00:03:33,760 yeah you know i mean it's not 70 00:03:39,050 --> 00:03:36,799 uh it's it's somebody 71 00:03:43,030 --> 00:03:39,060 somebody ought to fact check his ass 72 00:03:45,030 --> 00:03:43,040 [Laughter] 73 00:03:46,630 --> 00:03:45,040 well i mean to go on television and to 74 00:03:49,830 --> 00:03:46,640 say that you know that yeah they're 75 00:03:50,149 --> 00:03:49,840 they're against censorship when yeah you 76 00:03:57,270 --> 00:03:50,159 you 77 00:04:00,949 --> 00:03:57,280 publication 78 00:04:03,270 --> 00:04:00,959 conspiracy journal you want i do the 79 00:04:04,949 --> 00:04:03,280 the print edition and you do the weekly 80 00:04:07,910 --> 00:04:04,959 edition which is available for 81 00:04:09,910 --> 00:04:07,920 free okay and we don't yeah i call it 82 00:04:10,550 --> 00:04:09,920 soft conspiracy right we don't really 83 00:04:14,229 --> 00:04:10,560 get into 84 00:04:17,509 --> 00:04:14,239 9 11. uh we're not uh 85 00:04:19,270 --> 00:04:17,519 too much into uh the um 86 00:04:20,629 --> 00:04:19,280 builder burgers although i don't see 87 00:04:22,469 --> 00:04:20,639 where that's a big 88 00:04:24,070 --> 00:04:22,479 problem the group exists they meet every 89 00:04:26,550 --> 00:04:24,080 year all these big wigs and 90 00:04:28,550 --> 00:04:26,560 they have satanic rituals and henry 91 00:04:30,790 --> 00:04:28,560 kissinger runs around nude what's wrong 92 00:04:32,710 --> 00:04:30,800 with that they ought to just 93 00:04:34,310 --> 00:04:32,720 they ought to just admit to it i mean i 94 00:04:36,230 --> 00:04:34,320 don't i don't know you know i don't know 95 00:04:37,830 --> 00:04:36,240 it sounds like a weekend here in jasper 96 00:04:41,590 --> 00:04:37,840 you know yeah 97 00:04:42,070 --> 00:04:41,600 and and you know if if david ike wants 98 00:04:44,310 --> 00:04:42,080 to get 99 00:04:46,230 --> 00:04:44,320 on youtube and rave and rant at the 100 00:04:48,070 --> 00:04:46,240 queen as a reptilian 101 00:04:50,150 --> 00:04:48,080 well you know i want to ask peter our 102 00:04:53,909 --> 00:04:50,160 guest tonight about that because i'm 103 00:04:57,350 --> 00:04:53,919 i'm very suspicious she's always wearing 104 00:05:00,070 --> 00:04:57,360 yellow and green which seems to me 105 00:05:00,710 --> 00:05:00,080 they are the colors of the the the 106 00:05:04,070 --> 00:05:00,720 serpents 107 00:05:06,950 --> 00:05:04,080 of of reptiles maybe i'm wrong but 108 00:05:07,510 --> 00:05:06,960 peter's a sister the famous punk rock 109 00:05:09,990 --> 00:05:07,520 singer 110 00:05:11,830 --> 00:05:10,000 performer helen wheels had a boa 111 00:05:13,510 --> 00:05:11,840 constrictor so i don't remember what 112 00:05:15,590 --> 00:05:13,520 color it was but uh 113 00:05:18,230 --> 00:05:15,600 i don't know it's very suspicious so if 114 00:05:21,670 --> 00:05:18,240 david ike wants the raven rant about the 115 00:05:23,909 --> 00:05:21,680 uh the queen well that's fine with uh 116 00:05:24,950 --> 00:05:23,919 me i i don't know i mean i just i just 117 00:05:28,070 --> 00:05:24,960 think it's a 118 00:05:29,830 --> 00:05:28,080 it's up to the person to 119 00:05:31,590 --> 00:05:29,840 to decide what they want to believe if 120 00:05:32,150 --> 00:05:31,600 you want to put a warning on the bottom 121 00:05:34,629 --> 00:05:32,160 and say 122 00:05:37,270 --> 00:05:34,639 the queen is not a reptilian by 123 00:05:40,390 --> 00:05:37,280 community standards well that's okay too 124 00:05:42,469 --> 00:05:40,400 but to shut somebody down because they 125 00:05:45,590 --> 00:05:42,479 have something outrageous to say 126 00:05:46,310 --> 00:05:45,600 well people in politics on both sides of 127 00:05:48,150 --> 00:05:46,320 the aisle 128 00:05:49,749 --> 00:05:48,160 they always have something outrageous to 129 00:05:52,469 --> 00:05:49,759 say too 130 00:05:52,790 --> 00:05:52,479 anyway i i'm i'm you know i i've just 131 00:05:56,150 --> 00:05:52,800 had 132 00:05:58,870 --> 00:05:56,160 think that 133 00:06:00,860 --> 00:05:58,880 it's despicable and i'm sure he'll throw 134 00:06:03,110 --> 00:06:00,870 us off of facebook now for good 135 00:06:06,230 --> 00:06:03,120 [Laughter] 136 00:06:10,870 --> 00:06:06,240 uh not like i spend that much time on 137 00:06:14,070 --> 00:06:10,880 facebook to begin with but uh uh tim 138 00:06:16,150 --> 00:06:14,080 5 000 friends yeah that's right um 139 00:06:17,830 --> 00:06:16,160 and i'm i'm closing in pretty rapidly 140 00:06:19,990 --> 00:06:17,840 myself 141 00:06:21,189 --> 00:06:20,000 and so they should decide they should 142 00:06:23,189 --> 00:06:21,199 decide what 143 00:06:24,870 --> 00:06:23,199 if my community's standards are not 144 00:06:27,430 --> 00:06:24,880 their community standards 145 00:06:28,230 --> 00:06:27,440 they can always de-friend me or unfriend 146 00:06:31,510 --> 00:06:28,240 me or 147 00:06:35,510 --> 00:06:31,520 or or whatever because i i unfriend some 148 00:06:39,189 --> 00:06:35,520 of them 149 00:06:41,430 --> 00:06:39,199 anyway humbug bs and so forth and so on 150 00:06:42,790 --> 00:06:41,440 and let's talk about tonight's show 151 00:06:45,830 --> 00:06:42,800 right well 152 00:06:46,390 --> 00:06:45,840 tonight tim uh i'm really happy that uh 153 00:06:49,270 --> 00:06:46,400 we have 154 00:06:50,230 --> 00:06:49,280 a return visit from our very good friend 155 00:06:53,110 --> 00:06:50,240 peter robbins 156 00:06:56,390 --> 00:06:53,120 peter's been on our show a number of 157 00:06:58,790 --> 00:06:56,400 times and it's always a real pleasure 158 00:07:00,710 --> 00:06:58,800 when he is with us really quick peter 159 00:07:02,950 --> 00:07:00,720 robbins is an investigative writer 160 00:07:05,589 --> 00:07:02,960 author and lecturer best known for his 161 00:07:07,110 --> 00:07:05,599 ufo-related papers columns articles 162 00:07:10,150 --> 00:07:07,120 editorials commentaries 163 00:07:11,749 --> 00:07:10,160 lectures and media appearances he's a 164 00:07:12,950 --> 00:07:11,759 regular fixture on radio and has 165 00:07:15,189 --> 00:07:12,960 appeared as a guest 166 00:07:16,550 --> 00:07:15,199 and has been a consultant to numerous 167 00:07:20,070 --> 00:07:16,560 television shows 168 00:07:21,909 --> 00:07:20,080 and documentaries now peter born in new 169 00:07:24,150 --> 00:07:21,919 york city and studied art design and 170 00:07:25,350 --> 00:07:24,160 theater at the university of bridgeport 171 00:07:28,070 --> 00:07:25,360 in connecticut 172 00:07:28,950 --> 00:07:28,080 receiving his bfa painting and film 173 00:07:32,070 --> 00:07:28,960 history from 174 00:07:34,710 --> 00:07:32,080 new york city's school of visual art 175 00:07:36,469 --> 00:07:34,720 where he taught painting for more than a 176 00:07:37,749 --> 00:07:36,479 dozen years so peter 177 00:07:40,070 --> 00:07:37,759 great to have you back with us on 178 00:07:41,189 --> 00:07:40,080 exploring the bazaar good evening tim 179 00:07:44,469 --> 00:07:41,199 and tim and it's 180 00:07:45,909 --> 00:07:44,479 very happy to be back on the show well 181 00:07:47,830 --> 00:07:45,919 we just gave you a wonderful 182 00:07:50,230 --> 00:07:47,840 introduction that mentioned nothing 183 00:07:51,189 --> 00:07:50,240 about ufos but we can make that up as we 184 00:07:53,830 --> 00:07:51,199 go along 185 00:07:54,469 --> 00:07:53,840 well yes but we we want to we're we're 186 00:07:56,469 --> 00:07:54,479 into that 187 00:07:58,070 --> 00:07:56,479 you know i'm actually working on a book 188 00:08:01,670 --> 00:07:58,080 uh in fact i'm using some 189 00:08:02,390 --> 00:08:01,680 material in it it's called the cia 190 00:08:04,950 --> 00:08:02,400 matrix 191 00:08:05,749 --> 00:08:04,960 and the deep state all kinds of 192 00:08:08,070 --> 00:08:05,759 conspiracies 193 00:08:09,589 --> 00:08:08,080 uh you know i take no side when it i 194 00:08:11,189 --> 00:08:09,599 take the sideways 195 00:08:13,189 --> 00:08:11,199 i take no cypher when it comes to 196 00:08:15,189 --> 00:08:13,199 conspiracies the whole 197 00:08:16,629 --> 00:08:15,199 the whole world is a conspiracy as far 198 00:08:19,990 --> 00:08:16,639 as i'm uh i'm 199 00:08:21,670 --> 00:08:20,000 sorry but anyway 200 00:08:24,309 --> 00:08:21,680 why don't you tell us a little bit you 201 00:08:26,309 --> 00:08:24,319 know not everybody listening to the 202 00:08:27,850 --> 00:08:26,319 program was around when 203 00:08:30,390 --> 00:08:27,860 truman was president 204 00:08:33,430 --> 00:08:30,400 [Laughter] 205 00:08:34,550 --> 00:08:33,440 and when james forest was the secretary 206 00:08:37,829 --> 00:08:34,560 of defense 207 00:08:40,709 --> 00:08:37,839 and this rather suspicious suspicious 208 00:08:42,149 --> 00:08:40,719 and tragic event took place why didn't 209 00:08:46,389 --> 00:08:42,159 you set the stage for us 210 00:08:50,389 --> 00:08:46,399 but keep away from that window well um 211 00:08:53,110 --> 00:08:50,399 yeah i'll do that um james farstall 212 00:08:55,190 --> 00:08:53,120 was a remarkable and remarkably decent 213 00:08:58,630 --> 00:08:55,200 american he 214 00:09:02,150 --> 00:08:58,640 rose from very modest circumstances 215 00:09:03,430 --> 00:09:02,160 born in the late 19th century in upstate 216 00:09:06,630 --> 00:09:03,440 new york 217 00:09:08,470 --> 00:09:06,640 went on to the university education at 218 00:09:12,949 --> 00:09:08,480 dartmouth and princeton 219 00:09:15,509 --> 00:09:12,959 uh enlisted in the united states um 220 00:09:16,389 --> 00:09:15,519 army right toward the end of the first 221 00:09:19,829 --> 00:09:16,399 world war 222 00:09:21,269 --> 00:09:19,839 uh trained to be a uh a pilot and with 223 00:09:24,389 --> 00:09:21,279 the raf in canada 224 00:09:26,870 --> 00:09:24,399 the war ended before he could do that he 225 00:09:27,430 --> 00:09:26,880 returned to america but not to princeton 226 00:09:31,829 --> 00:09:27,440 and 227 00:09:35,269 --> 00:09:31,839 follow the american dream 228 00:09:38,630 --> 00:09:35,279 to make money and live the good life he 229 00:09:41,190 --> 00:09:38,640 uh did very well in business met and 230 00:09:45,190 --> 00:09:41,200 married a uh editor at vogue magazine 231 00:09:48,550 --> 00:09:45,200 former ziegfeld showgirl uh prospered 232 00:09:50,389 --> 00:09:48,560 and um was one of the few heads of any 233 00:09:52,870 --> 00:09:50,399 brokerage house 234 00:09:56,310 --> 00:09:52,880 to manage to keep them afloat after the 235 00:10:00,310 --> 00:09:56,320 crash of 1929 and into the depression 236 00:10:01,670 --> 00:10:00,320 he was cultured he was well read he was 237 00:10:04,870 --> 00:10:01,680 a passionate amateur 238 00:10:06,790 --> 00:10:04,880 sportsman a professional level tennis 239 00:10:10,389 --> 00:10:06,800 player and golfer 240 00:10:12,630 --> 00:10:10,399 amateur boxer and 241 00:10:15,430 --> 00:10:12,640 had a very savvy head for business he 242 00:10:18,870 --> 00:10:15,440 was also extremely charismatic and 243 00:10:19,269 --> 00:10:18,880 in working on background material for 244 00:10:22,389 --> 00:10:19,279 this 245 00:10:23,990 --> 00:10:22,399 documentary which is a very modest kind 246 00:10:26,389 --> 00:10:24,000 of personal project 247 00:10:28,069 --> 00:10:26,399 but it is the result of more than 30 248 00:10:29,910 --> 00:10:28,079 years of research on and off 249 00:10:31,670 --> 00:10:29,920 that's the way it is sometimes in this 250 00:10:32,949 --> 00:10:31,680 field he 251 00:10:34,790 --> 00:10:32,959 was brought to the attention of 252 00:10:37,269 --> 00:10:34,800 president roosevelt 253 00:10:39,110 --> 00:10:37,279 during the depression by a former 254 00:10:40,310 --> 00:10:39,120 classmate at princeton who went on to 255 00:10:42,550 --> 00:10:40,320 become a very 256 00:10:44,150 --> 00:10:42,560 successful banker a man named ferdinand 257 00:10:45,670 --> 00:10:44,160 eberstadt 258 00:10:48,310 --> 00:10:45,680 roosevelt was impressed with his 259 00:10:50,949 --> 00:10:48,320 credentials and forestall was invited to 260 00:10:52,069 --> 00:10:50,959 move to washington for the duration of 261 00:10:54,230 --> 00:10:52,079 the depression uh 262 00:10:55,990 --> 00:10:54,240 was the way that it usually worked and 263 00:10:58,389 --> 00:10:56,000 joined a cadre of 264 00:10:59,590 --> 00:10:58,399 basically white millionaire successful 265 00:11:01,670 --> 00:10:59,600 businessmen 266 00:11:02,790 --> 00:11:01,680 who worked at the pleasure of the 267 00:11:04,630 --> 00:11:02,800 president to 268 00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:04,640 help advise him on getting the country 269 00:11:07,910 --> 00:11:06,160 out of the depression 270 00:11:09,670 --> 00:11:07,920 for a dollar a year they were 271 00:11:09,990 --> 00:11:09,680 euphemistically called the dollar a year 272 00:11:13,110 --> 00:11:10,000 men 273 00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:13,120 or the kitchen cabinet uh a bit of a pun 274 00:11:16,870 --> 00:11:14,800 on the regular cabinet 275 00:11:18,870 --> 00:11:16,880 um he took the call to public service 276 00:11:22,069 --> 00:11:18,880 extremely seriously 277 00:11:23,269 --> 00:11:22,079 and where other individuals that were 278 00:11:25,670 --> 00:11:23,279 advising roosevelt 279 00:11:27,269 --> 00:11:25,680 did return to their private lives as the 280 00:11:29,110 --> 00:11:27,279 economy got better 281 00:11:30,790 --> 00:11:29,120 he never left washington after that 282 00:11:33,829 --> 00:11:30,800 really 283 00:11:35,269 --> 00:11:33,839 in the years leading up to world war ii 284 00:11:38,630 --> 00:11:35,279 he was appointed uh 285 00:11:41,509 --> 00:11:38,640 under secretary of navy um and then 286 00:11:42,069 --> 00:11:41,519 toward the end of world war ii when the 287 00:11:44,230 --> 00:11:42,079 secretary 288 00:11:45,430 --> 00:11:44,240 of navy frank knox had a heart attack 289 00:11:48,710 --> 00:11:45,440 and died 290 00:11:51,910 --> 00:11:48,720 he became the secretary of navy he was 291 00:11:55,190 --> 00:11:51,920 an ultimate team player um 292 00:11:57,590 --> 00:11:55,200 a true patriot and i that word is so 293 00:11:59,990 --> 00:11:57,600 bandied about these days by people who 294 00:12:01,350 --> 00:12:00,000 really have no right to use it or 295 00:12:04,949 --> 00:12:01,360 minimally 296 00:12:07,670 --> 00:12:04,959 he was the real deal and um he also 297 00:12:08,629 --> 00:12:07,680 thrived in high-stress atmospheres he 298 00:12:10,710 --> 00:12:08,639 must have driven 299 00:12:12,870 --> 00:12:10,720 some of his underlings at the pentagon 300 00:12:14,389 --> 00:12:12,880 crazy because he kept putting himself in 301 00:12:16,550 --> 00:12:14,399 harm's way 302 00:12:18,389 --> 00:12:16,560 as the secretary of navy he was at the 303 00:12:22,629 --> 00:12:18,399 battle of leyte gulf 304 00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:22,639 iwo jima tokyo bay 305 00:12:26,629 --> 00:12:24,560 and a number of others he was a very 306 00:12:29,910 --> 00:12:26,639 hands-on guy 307 00:12:32,069 --> 00:12:29,920 april 1945 president truman died 308 00:12:33,350 --> 00:12:32,079 roosevelt dies and president and vice 309 00:12:36,150 --> 00:12:33,360 president truman 310 00:12:38,629 --> 00:12:36,160 becomes president uh at the conclusion 311 00:12:42,470 --> 00:12:38,639 of the war truman 312 00:12:46,230 --> 00:12:42,480 um charges forrest all 313 00:12:47,990 --> 00:12:46,240 with a very challenging mission 314 00:12:50,629 --> 00:12:48,000 he wants him to take the old war 315 00:12:52,629 --> 00:12:50,639 department which had been in place since 316 00:12:54,150 --> 00:12:52,639 the american revolution it was a cabinet 317 00:12:56,470 --> 00:12:54,160 level position 318 00:12:58,230 --> 00:12:56,480 dismantle it and create a new entity 319 00:12:59,430 --> 00:12:58,240 that would be called the department of 320 00:13:03,190 --> 00:12:59,440 defense 321 00:13:06,069 --> 00:13:03,200 and ultimately as it opened in september 322 00:13:06,790 --> 00:13:06,079 uh well and as he took office in 323 00:13:09,910 --> 00:13:06,800 september 324 00:13:11,910 --> 00:13:09,920 of uh 1947 it also 325 00:13:14,150 --> 00:13:11,920 incorporated the newest service branch 326 00:13:17,190 --> 00:13:14,160 the united states air force 327 00:13:21,190 --> 00:13:17,200 uh he created the defense department 328 00:13:22,550 --> 00:13:21,200 again as an individual literally without 329 00:13:24,949 --> 00:13:22,560 benefit of working as part of a 330 00:13:27,750 --> 00:13:24,959 committee the infighting was pretty 331 00:13:31,030 --> 00:13:27,760 ferocious and he handled it very well 332 00:13:33,509 --> 00:13:31,040 not surprisingly upon completion 333 00:13:34,870 --> 00:13:33,519 president truman nominated him to become 334 00:13:38,069 --> 00:13:34,880 the first secretary 335 00:13:41,350 --> 00:13:38,079 of defense imagine this happening 336 00:13:44,470 --> 00:13:41,360 in our modern washington 337 00:13:47,990 --> 00:13:44,480 he was elected by well 338 00:13:50,550 --> 00:13:48,000 and confirmed by acclamation every 339 00:13:52,150 --> 00:13:50,560 single senator and congressman approved 340 00:13:54,710 --> 00:13:52,160 his nomination 341 00:13:56,310 --> 00:13:54,720 and he was sworn in well that would 342 00:14:00,629 --> 00:13:56,320 happen today would it oh yeah 343 00:14:04,949 --> 00:14:03,590 that's that's how much respect he 344 00:14:08,069 --> 00:14:04,959 engendered from 345 00:14:10,790 --> 00:14:08,079 not just the uh uh 346 00:14:11,990 --> 00:14:10,800 the legislature brands and the president 347 00:14:15,430 --> 00:14:12,000 and the military 348 00:14:17,910 --> 00:14:15,440 but the people of the united states um 349 00:14:20,230 --> 00:14:17,920 my mother uh told me in her reflections 350 00:14:22,470 --> 00:14:20,240 of remembering him as a teenager 351 00:14:23,829 --> 00:14:22,480 that everybody thought the world of them 352 00:14:26,389 --> 00:14:23,839 and we 353 00:14:27,590 --> 00:14:26,399 who knows how long much longer the war 354 00:14:29,750 --> 00:14:27,600 would have taken 355 00:14:31,750 --> 00:14:29,760 without his dedication and and 356 00:14:33,750 --> 00:14:31,760 extraordinary service 357 00:14:35,910 --> 00:14:33,760 this is where the story crosses into 358 00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:35,920 territory that we're more familiar with 359 00:14:40,790 --> 00:14:37,680 and i should say 360 00:14:43,910 --> 00:14:40,800 tim and tim that in creating this 361 00:14:45,189 --> 00:14:43,920 um again it's a one-person documentary 362 00:14:47,829 --> 00:14:45,199 it's me with a green screen 363 00:14:48,470 --> 00:14:47,839 and a lot of images and some nice music 364 00:14:51,670 --> 00:14:48,480 uh 365 00:14:55,990 --> 00:14:51,680 film clips um on the surface 366 00:14:59,030 --> 00:14:56,000 it appears very tame 367 00:15:01,350 --> 00:14:59,040 it suggests the kind of um 368 00:15:03,750 --> 00:15:01,360 little film that could be shown for a 369 00:15:08,069 --> 00:15:03,760 fraternal organization a high school 370 00:15:10,829 --> 00:15:08,079 a history class or in a church basement 371 00:15:12,550 --> 00:15:10,839 but i have to say i think it's the most 372 00:15:15,430 --> 00:15:12,560 methodical 373 00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:15,440 controlled subversive project i've ever 374 00:15:20,069 --> 00:15:16,480 been involved in 375 00:15:21,910 --> 00:15:20,079 in that my goal was to 376 00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:21,920 you know people in the ufo field like it 377 00:15:25,509 --> 00:15:23,279 that's great um 378 00:15:26,949 --> 00:15:25,519 but i aimed it at everybody else in the 379 00:15:29,829 --> 00:15:26,959 world i wanted to find 380 00:15:31,269 --> 00:15:29,839 a story that was absolutely true that i 381 00:15:34,310 --> 00:15:31,279 could document 382 00:15:38,150 --> 00:15:34,320 that was so compelling i compare them 383 00:15:40,470 --> 00:15:38,160 to f scott fitzgerald's the great gatsby 384 00:15:43,110 --> 00:15:40,480 he was an incredibly self-made man and 385 00:15:46,389 --> 00:15:43,120 again kennedy-esque in his uh 386 00:15:49,189 --> 00:15:46,399 uh charisma and 387 00:15:50,710 --> 00:15:49,199 by the time we get to the summer of 1947 388 00:15:53,829 --> 00:15:50,720 my hope is that 389 00:15:54,949 --> 00:15:53,839 a regulation issue you know sort of 390 00:15:57,350 --> 00:15:54,959 straight audience 391 00:15:59,110 --> 00:15:57,360 is so caught up in the story that when i 392 00:16:02,069 --> 00:15:59,120 mention 393 00:16:03,509 --> 00:16:02,079 late july first of late june the first 394 00:16:06,069 --> 00:16:03,519 of july or so 395 00:16:07,749 --> 00:16:06,079 an object of undetermined origin crashes 396 00:16:09,829 --> 00:16:07,759 in the planes 397 00:16:11,829 --> 00:16:09,839 several dozen miles from a small town at 398 00:16:13,430 --> 00:16:11,839 that time called roswell new mexico when 399 00:16:16,230 --> 00:16:13,440 i go on 400 00:16:17,430 --> 00:16:16,240 but imagine what was waiting for him on 401 00:16:21,030 --> 00:16:17,440 his desk 402 00:16:23,509 --> 00:16:21,040 the day he first appeared on his first 403 00:16:26,790 --> 00:16:23,519 day as secretary of defense 404 00:16:29,509 --> 00:16:26,800 we know that from the original 405 00:16:31,110 --> 00:16:29,519 eight-page mj-12 briefing document and 406 00:16:32,870 --> 00:16:31,120 as you guys know 407 00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:32,880 there's like a zillion documents 408 00:16:38,550 --> 00:16:35,040 alleging to be m.j 409 00:16:39,749 --> 00:16:38,560 i think um i think a great many of them 410 00:16:42,790 --> 00:16:39,759 to be kind 411 00:16:44,629 --> 00:16:42,800 are not so much you know 412 00:16:47,590 --> 00:16:44,639 typed up in somebody's basement i think 413 00:16:49,509 --> 00:16:47,600 they're extraordinary sophisticated 414 00:16:50,550 --> 00:16:49,519 disinformation making them almost as 415 00:16:52,470 --> 00:16:50,560 interesting 416 00:16:54,150 --> 00:16:52,480 in their own way as if they were real 417 00:16:55,189 --> 00:16:54,160 and i may be wrong there but i am 418 00:16:58,389 --> 00:16:55,199 convinced 419 00:16:59,829 --> 00:16:58,399 as was a mentor of mine somebody we all 420 00:17:02,470 --> 00:16:59,839 looked up to in ufology 421 00:17:04,390 --> 00:17:02,480 we lost last year and who was something 422 00:17:05,350 --> 00:17:04,400 of a scholar on the subject stanton t 423 00:17:08,390 --> 00:17:05,360 friedman 424 00:17:11,669 --> 00:17:08,400 that that eight-page briefing document 425 00:17:13,110 --> 00:17:11,679 to president-elect eisenhower that names 426 00:17:16,549 --> 00:17:13,120 those 12 men 427 00:17:18,549 --> 00:17:16,559 uh farstall was number three 428 00:17:19,990 --> 00:17:18,559 and he would have certainly been the 429 00:17:24,390 --> 00:17:20,000 right man to choose 430 00:17:27,350 --> 00:17:24,400 in his area of expertise but 431 00:17:30,150 --> 00:17:27,360 if you read the um the job description 432 00:17:33,510 --> 00:17:30,160 for secretary of defense 433 00:17:34,549 --> 00:17:33,520 in reality it is the second most 434 00:17:36,950 --> 00:17:34,559 powerful position 435 00:17:38,789 --> 00:17:36,960 in the united states technically the 436 00:17:41,350 --> 00:17:38,799 vice president becomes president 437 00:17:43,990 --> 00:17:41,360 but while he's still vice president the 438 00:17:48,230 --> 00:17:44,000 secretary of defense can make policy 439 00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:48,240 and in the case of truman and forrestall 440 00:17:52,070 --> 00:17:50,640 everything that truman was learning 441 00:17:56,150 --> 00:17:52,080 everything that he knew 442 00:17:58,950 --> 00:17:56,160 about this growing concern about 443 00:18:00,310 --> 00:17:58,960 this um unidentified flying disc 444 00:18:03,430 --> 00:18:00,320 phenomena 445 00:18:06,630 --> 00:18:03,440 forrest all knew now where 446 00:18:09,669 --> 00:18:06,640 some of the poignancy and natural 447 00:18:11,909 --> 00:18:09,679 and well-documented drama of what 448 00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:11,919 goes from being a horatio alger story 449 00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:14,400 and a great american success story into 450 00:18:19,190 --> 00:18:15,440 a true greek 451 00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:19,200 greek tragedy is having read 452 00:18:24,390 --> 00:18:22,080 literally everything over the decades 453 00:18:26,470 --> 00:18:24,400 written by forrest all 454 00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:26,480 the few books published about forrest 455 00:18:32,789 --> 00:18:28,880 all and you know meet him i'm 456 00:18:35,110 --> 00:18:32,799 a book nut and um even going back to the 457 00:18:37,510 --> 00:18:35,120 80s i was haunting used bookstores for 458 00:18:38,230 --> 00:18:37,520 outer print memoirs by everyone who knew 459 00:18:41,190 --> 00:18:38,240 him 460 00:18:41,669 --> 00:18:41,200 go to the index marketplaces and you 461 00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:41,679 know 462 00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:45,120 do it old school i worked for uh 463 00:18:49,830 --> 00:18:47,520 several years on and off in the new york 464 00:18:51,430 --> 00:18:49,840 times newspaper board pulling up every 465 00:18:53,990 --> 00:18:51,440 article 466 00:18:56,150 --> 00:18:54,000 our wonderful main branch new york city 467 00:18:59,350 --> 00:18:56,160 public library in the rose reading room 468 00:19:00,630 --> 00:18:59,360 i'd come and go further you know over 469 00:19:02,950 --> 00:19:00,640 the years 470 00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:02,960 let me ask you something in any of the 471 00:19:08,870 --> 00:19:05,039 documents or papers that you saw 472 00:19:12,310 --> 00:19:08,880 was the word ufo ever used 473 00:19:15,430 --> 00:19:12,320 in association within oh never never 474 00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:15,440 and that is not surprising 475 00:19:20,630 --> 00:19:18,160 for well first of all the term ufo did 476 00:19:22,630 --> 00:19:20,640 not come into use until 1956. 477 00:19:25,430 --> 00:19:22,640 you're absolutely correct yes yeah but 478 00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:25,440 no um 479 00:19:31,510 --> 00:19:29,200 it was beautifully controlled and um 480 00:19:34,630 --> 00:19:31,520 everybody kind of insulated themselves 481 00:19:37,990 --> 00:19:34,640 in their memoirs etc 482 00:19:40,549 --> 00:19:38,000 but what happens here is what we need to 483 00:19:42,230 --> 00:19:40,559 know um about james forrestall 484 00:19:45,270 --> 00:19:42,240 personally and there's a 485 00:19:47,909 --> 00:19:45,280 brilliant and unique book written about 486 00:19:50,710 --> 00:19:47,919 him in the early 60s 487 00:19:51,350 --> 00:19:50,720 called james forrestall i think a study 488 00:19:54,710 --> 00:19:51,360 in 489 00:19:59,110 --> 00:19:54,720 personality i've got to write here 490 00:20:01,669 --> 00:19:59,120 james yeah james far saw a study of 491 00:20:04,070 --> 00:20:01,679 personality politics and policy 492 00:20:04,870 --> 00:20:04,080 i won't call him character flaws but he 493 00:20:06,950 --> 00:20:04,880 had two 494 00:20:08,789 --> 00:20:06,960 aspects to his personality that really 495 00:20:11,909 --> 00:20:08,799 were part of his undoing 496 00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:11,919 number one um as the kind of guy 497 00:20:16,310 --> 00:20:14,080 who you know as they used to say about 498 00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:16,320 kennedy and other charismatic people 499 00:20:19,669 --> 00:20:17,840 the kind of guy when he'd walk into a 500 00:20:21,029 --> 00:20:19,679 room all the guys wanted to have a drink 501 00:20:23,909 --> 00:20:21,039 with them and all the women wanted to 502 00:20:26,470 --> 00:20:23,919 sleep with him this was james barstow 503 00:20:27,830 --> 00:20:26,480 he seemed to have a pathological 504 00:20:30,789 --> 00:20:27,840 inability 505 00:20:32,310 --> 00:20:30,799 to allow any of his many friends and 506 00:20:35,590 --> 00:20:32,320 acquaintances to get 507 00:20:38,070 --> 00:20:35,600 too close he was walled off inside 508 00:20:40,630 --> 00:20:38,080 and can get psychological and discuss 509 00:20:44,390 --> 00:20:40,640 the reasoning but he was that way 510 00:20:47,270 --> 00:20:44,400 more destructive was he 511 00:20:48,230 --> 00:20:47,280 habitually from the time he was young 512 00:20:50,870 --> 00:20:48,240 personalized 513 00:20:52,710 --> 00:20:50,880 not just his successes which is not a 514 00:20:55,510 --> 00:20:52,720 bad thing but his failures 515 00:20:56,870 --> 00:20:55,520 if you if the three of us were working 516 00:20:59,669 --> 00:20:56,880 what we'd laughingly call 517 00:21:02,310 --> 00:20:59,679 regular straight office jobs ha ha and 518 00:21:05,909 --> 00:21:02,320 we had a very bad day at the office 519 00:21:08,230 --> 00:21:05,919 got bald out by the boss screwed up an 520 00:21:10,230 --> 00:21:08,240 order cost the company money 521 00:21:11,909 --> 00:21:10,240 you know you leave the work with your 522 00:21:13,669 --> 00:21:11,919 tail between your legs you go home 523 00:21:15,430 --> 00:21:13,679 you kiss your wife your husband your dog 524 00:21:17,110 --> 00:21:15,440 whatever you watch some tv you have a 525 00:21:18,789 --> 00:21:17,120 drink you have dinner 526 00:21:20,710 --> 00:21:18,799 resolve to do better the next day go to 527 00:21:22,710 --> 00:21:20,720 bed and go back 528 00:21:24,149 --> 00:21:22,720 he could not let this go and what it 529 00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:24,159 came down to 530 00:21:29,190 --> 00:21:26,720 was from the time he took office in 531 00:21:31,830 --> 00:21:29,200 september of 47 532 00:21:34,070 --> 00:21:31,840 until the day that he stepped down in 533 00:21:38,630 --> 00:21:34,080 march of 49 534 00:21:41,510 --> 00:21:38,640 in his heart and in his efforts he knew 535 00:21:42,870 --> 00:21:41,520 that even though he was heading the most 536 00:21:46,070 --> 00:21:42,880 powerful 537 00:21:47,669 --> 00:21:46,080 military establishment not counting 538 00:21:50,390 --> 00:21:47,679 whatever was going on in 539 00:21:51,029 --> 00:21:50,400 mua lamora or you know atlantis or 540 00:21:53,190 --> 00:21:51,039 something 541 00:21:54,310 --> 00:21:53,200 but in in you know modern history so to 542 00:21:57,669 --> 00:21:54,320 say 543 00:21:59,350 --> 00:21:57,679 he he couldn't crack it he didn't 544 00:22:01,669 --> 00:21:59,360 he couldn't get us any closer to an 545 00:22:05,270 --> 00:22:01,679 answer and it ate him up inside 546 00:22:05,909 --> 00:22:05,280 and um before we go to break i'll just 547 00:22:08,789 --> 00:22:05,919 say that 548 00:22:10,470 --> 00:22:08,799 he he he walled that off you know you 549 00:22:13,350 --> 00:22:10,480 can look at his face and see it's tight 550 00:22:15,909 --> 00:22:13,360 as a drum and photographs of that period 551 00:22:17,190 --> 00:22:15,919 but he was able to stave it until 552 00:22:19,830 --> 00:22:17,200 literally 553 00:22:22,070 --> 00:22:19,840 the afternoon that he stepped down and 554 00:22:24,549 --> 00:22:22,080 that the second secretary of defense 555 00:22:26,149 --> 00:22:24,559 uh kind of a political hack but gave a 556 00:22:29,590 --> 00:22:26,159 lot of money to the party 557 00:22:32,230 --> 00:22:29,600 named louis k johnson took over and 558 00:22:35,190 --> 00:22:32,240 this is where the story rolls into a 559 00:22:38,470 --> 00:22:37,669 all right well this is a good place to 560 00:22:41,110 --> 00:22:38,480 uh 561 00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:41,120 to stop because tim and peter 562 00:22:44,390 --> 00:22:42,000 unfortunately we 563 00:22:45,510 --> 00:22:44,400 are at our bottom of the hour break so 564 00:22:48,070 --> 00:22:45,520 when we come back 565 00:22:49,590 --> 00:22:48,080 we'll continue our conversation with 566 00:22:52,149 --> 00:22:49,600 peter robbins 567 00:22:54,020 --> 00:22:52,159 on exploring the bazaar so stay tuned 568 00:23:03,270 --> 00:22:54,030 for more 569 00:23:08,470 --> 00:23:06,390 now back to exploring the bazaar 570 00:23:10,470 --> 00:23:08,480 with two of the most electrifying 571 00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:10,480 researchers in the paranormal 572 00:23:17,750 --> 00:23:13,840 your hosts timothy beckley and tim 573 00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:19,110 and welcome back to exploring the 574 00:23:22,070 --> 00:23:21,440 bizarre i'm tim schwartz tonight our 575 00:23:25,270 --> 00:23:22,080 guest 576 00:23:29,029 --> 00:23:25,280 is peter robbins and we're talking about 577 00:23:32,310 --> 00:23:29,039 the uh strange death of james forrestal 578 00:23:35,750 --> 00:23:32,320 now uh peter uh you have uh 579 00:23:39,029 --> 00:23:35,760 mentioned uh from the last segment 580 00:23:39,909 --> 00:23:39,039 a documentary that you've produced about 581 00:23:44,789 --> 00:23:39,919 this 582 00:23:47,350 --> 00:23:44,799 has it been released yet 583 00:23:49,269 --> 00:23:47,360 they can come to my home and see it all 584 00:23:52,630 --> 00:23:49,279 right 585 00:23:55,669 --> 00:23:52,640 it will be out soon um as tim knows 586 00:23:59,110 --> 00:23:55,679 um we have been good buddies for decades 587 00:24:01,269 --> 00:23:59,120 and i am not the most practical person 588 00:24:04,470 --> 00:24:01,279 but i mean well i am sincere and i'm a 589 00:24:07,510 --> 00:24:04,480 good researcher and i did this 590 00:24:10,549 --> 00:24:07,520 with passion first accuracy of course 591 00:24:13,390 --> 00:24:10,559 what i neglected to do was 592 00:24:15,510 --> 00:24:13,400 make notes on every single one of the 593 00:24:17,590 --> 00:24:15,520 150 odd images 594 00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:17,600 i've you know searched for and found in 595 00:24:23,909 --> 00:24:20,320 various archives and online and in books 596 00:24:26,390 --> 00:24:23,919 the newspaper images i'm fine with they 597 00:24:27,909 --> 00:24:26,400 move into the public domain very quickly 598 00:24:30,950 --> 00:24:27,919 but there are other images 599 00:24:33,190 --> 00:24:30,960 that are owned by archives or whatever 600 00:24:34,390 --> 00:24:33,200 and so i am now going through the 601 00:24:37,350 --> 00:24:34,400 process 602 00:24:39,430 --> 00:24:37,360 of retracing the ownership of any 603 00:24:41,909 --> 00:24:39,440 photographs that 604 00:24:43,029 --> 00:24:41,919 at this level of the game it may be a 25 605 00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:43,039 fee here or 606 00:24:47,190 --> 00:24:45,200 similar one there but over the next few 607 00:24:49,350 --> 00:24:47,200 weeks i will be sorting it out 608 00:24:50,950 --> 00:24:49,360 and then and i'll certainly let you guys 609 00:24:53,990 --> 00:24:50,960 know and beforehand 610 00:24:55,909 --> 00:24:54,000 uh um i'll send you a secured link 611 00:24:57,350 --> 00:24:55,919 so that you can watch it on your own 612 00:24:59,029 --> 00:24:57,360 because i don't want that to get out 613 00:25:01,110 --> 00:24:59,039 there once it's on youtube 614 00:25:02,950 --> 00:25:01,120 that product is dead in the water and i 615 00:25:03,430 --> 00:25:02,960 really don't have any books out right 616 00:25:07,909 --> 00:25:03,440 now 617 00:25:11,110 --> 00:25:07,919 chase though 618 00:25:14,230 --> 00:25:11,120 within a few weeks it will be 619 00:25:16,149 --> 00:25:14,240 available for streaming and i'm very 620 00:25:17,190 --> 00:25:16,159 proud of the fact that when the dvd 621 00:25:20,549 --> 00:25:17,200 comes out 622 00:25:23,909 --> 00:25:22,230 optional english subtitles for the 623 00:25:27,110 --> 00:25:23,919 hearing impaired 624 00:25:28,630 --> 00:25:27,120 and also optional spanish language 625 00:25:31,669 --> 00:25:28,640 subtitles 626 00:25:35,350 --> 00:25:31,679 my wonderful producers and i 627 00:25:37,269 --> 00:25:35,360 are going to be looking at how this 628 00:25:40,070 --> 00:25:37,279 thing moves out into the world 629 00:25:42,470 --> 00:25:40,080 and if there is interest in other 630 00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:42,480 countries we will consider that the next 631 00:25:45,590 --> 00:25:43,120 edition 632 00:25:47,269 --> 00:25:45,600 has additional subtitles in different 633 00:25:51,669 --> 00:25:47,279 languages 634 00:25:54,390 --> 00:25:51,679 i'm very proud of it i think it's a 635 00:25:55,430 --> 00:25:54,400 it's good grounded stuff and maybe most 636 00:25:58,789 --> 00:25:55,440 important 637 00:26:02,310 --> 00:25:58,799 it can act to 638 00:26:04,549 --> 00:26:02,320 bring people who would never watch a ufo 639 00:26:07,590 --> 00:26:04,559 documentary or video or dvd 640 00:26:09,830 --> 00:26:07,600 or go to ufo conference to 641 00:26:10,950 --> 00:26:09,840 set a story very well documented in 642 00:26:14,470 --> 00:26:10,960 post-war 643 00:26:17,430 --> 00:26:14,480 american history that dovetails into 644 00:26:19,350 --> 00:26:17,440 the hardcore early days of the cover-up 645 00:26:22,630 --> 00:26:19,360 of the ufo truly 646 00:26:25,430 --> 00:26:22,640 anomalous ufo phenomena and 647 00:26:26,630 --> 00:26:25,440 if they can then see my god these are 648 00:26:28,950 --> 00:26:26,640 real documents 649 00:26:30,630 --> 00:26:28,960 and the timeline works and i see here 650 00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:30,640 that this is the hospital records and 651 00:26:33,350 --> 00:26:31,600 what have you 652 00:26:35,190 --> 00:26:33,360 you know what maybe there's something to 653 00:26:36,310 --> 00:26:35,200 it and now i'm intrigued and want to 654 00:26:38,789 --> 00:26:36,320 learn more 655 00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:38,799 that for me i would consider a great 656 00:26:43,430 --> 00:26:41,200 victory 657 00:26:45,110 --> 00:26:43,440 we have a question from one of our 658 00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:45,120 listeners cosmonaut 659 00:26:51,669 --> 00:26:48,640 57 he wants to know about the 660 00:26:54,230 --> 00:26:51,679 specifics of the big secret that got 661 00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:54,240 forrester killed uh he says what was 662 00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:55,120 that exactly 663 00:26:59,190 --> 00:26:58,080 could you be more specific than just ufo 664 00:27:02,310 --> 00:26:59,200 secrets 665 00:27:05,029 --> 00:27:02,320 well number one it wasn't ufo 666 00:27:06,870 --> 00:27:05,039 secrets that got him killed near as i 667 00:27:08,950 --> 00:27:06,880 can figure 668 00:27:10,789 --> 00:27:08,960 the basic thing we have to remember here 669 00:27:14,390 --> 00:27:10,799 and it's not 670 00:27:16,630 --> 00:27:14,400 exotic paranoid or conspiratorial 671 00:27:17,750 --> 00:27:16,640 it's just the way the world is now and 672 00:27:19,990 --> 00:27:17,760 was then 673 00:27:21,029 --> 00:27:20,000 i think it's fair to say that the three 674 00:27:23,029 --> 00:27:21,039 of us 675 00:27:24,149 --> 00:27:23,039 and i'm gonna i'd bet money on the fact 676 00:27:25,510 --> 00:27:24,159 that 677 00:27:26,710 --> 00:27:25,520 every one of you listeners unless 678 00:27:29,430 --> 00:27:26,720 they've been living in a cave their 679 00:27:32,789 --> 00:27:29,440 whole lives somewhere in the himalayas 680 00:27:36,070 --> 00:27:32,799 either themselves or a family member 681 00:27:37,669 --> 00:27:36,080 or a friend or a business associate or 682 00:27:40,470 --> 00:27:37,679 somebody that they grew up with 683 00:27:43,190 --> 00:27:40,480 or somebody they have met and known at 684 00:27:46,830 --> 00:27:43,200 one time or another in their lives has 685 00:27:49,029 --> 00:27:46,840 consulted a therapist seen a 686 00:27:53,510 --> 00:27:49,039 psychiatrist 687 00:27:56,470 --> 00:27:53,520 con been to a psychologist 688 00:27:56,870 --> 00:27:56,480 needed counseling of one kind or another 689 00:27:59,669 --> 00:27:56,880 it's 690 00:28:01,190 --> 00:27:59,679 just the way the modern world is it was 691 00:28:05,350 --> 00:28:01,200 exactly the opposite 692 00:28:07,909 --> 00:28:05,360 in 1949 i'd bet one american 693 00:28:10,310 --> 00:28:07,919 in a hundred if not 500 knew somebody 694 00:28:13,430 --> 00:28:10,320 who was quote unquote in therapy 695 00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:13,440 or seeing a mental health professional 696 00:28:16,630 --> 00:28:16,080 unless say you or some society person 697 00:28:18,950 --> 00:28:16,640 and 698 00:28:22,630 --> 00:28:18,960 you went to vienna to be you know 699 00:28:25,669 --> 00:28:22,640 psychoanalyzed by a protege of freud's 700 00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:25,679 we're dealing here with not just an 701 00:28:28,950 --> 00:28:27,840 alpha male high up in the american 702 00:28:32,230 --> 00:28:28,960 government 703 00:28:35,750 --> 00:28:32,240 but next to truman as 704 00:28:40,070 --> 00:28:35,760 alpha male as they get the man who knew 705 00:28:43,190 --> 00:28:40,080 all the secrets who was privy to 706 00:28:45,909 --> 00:28:43,200 not just some of or most of what we were 707 00:28:49,510 --> 00:28:45,919 learning from the summer of 1947 708 00:28:52,789 --> 00:28:49,520 into the spring of 1949 he knew 709 00:28:55,710 --> 00:28:52,799 everything truman knew and 710 00:28:57,590 --> 00:28:55,720 the fact that he was charged with the 711 00:29:00,549 --> 00:28:57,600 responsibility 712 00:29:02,950 --> 00:29:00,559 for getting to the bottom of this the 713 00:29:06,070 --> 00:29:02,960 eisenhower briefing document comes with 714 00:29:06,870 --> 00:29:06,080 a one-page letter purporting to be from 715 00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:06,880 truman 716 00:29:10,870 --> 00:29:09,520 to forestall it's brief it's terse and 717 00:29:13,830 --> 00:29:10,880 it's to the point 718 00:29:14,710 --> 00:29:13,840 and essentially it says you know fulfill 719 00:29:18,310 --> 00:29:14,720 this mission 720 00:29:20,950 --> 00:29:18,320 and forestall tried his damnedest but 721 00:29:22,389 --> 00:29:20,960 again even with the resources that he 722 00:29:26,070 --> 00:29:22,399 had at hand 723 00:29:29,269 --> 00:29:26,080 he couldn't deliver anything concise 724 00:29:31,190 --> 00:29:29,279 cohesive and definitive to the president 725 00:29:32,310 --> 00:29:31,200 for another person they might have been 726 00:29:35,029 --> 00:29:32,320 depressed or 727 00:29:35,510 --> 00:29:35,039 disappointed in themselves but hey you 728 00:29:37,029 --> 00:29:35,520 know 729 00:29:38,789 --> 00:29:37,039 when i leave here i'll write my memoirs 730 00:29:41,590 --> 00:29:38,799 and live a cushy life 731 00:29:43,590 --> 00:29:41,600 it broke him it broke him he felt that 732 00:29:47,029 --> 00:29:43,600 his life was a total failure 733 00:29:47,590 --> 00:29:47,039 now here's the crux of it the men around 734 00:29:49,830 --> 00:29:47,600 truman 735 00:29:50,789 --> 00:29:49,840 and a lot of them were very tough 736 00:29:54,070 --> 00:29:50,799 no-nonsense 737 00:29:57,750 --> 00:29:54,080 individuals all of them knew that 738 00:30:00,870 --> 00:29:57,760 they had had this breath of fresh air 739 00:30:02,630 --> 00:30:00,880 in the summer of 1945 we were 740 00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:02,640 the united states of america at that 741 00:30:07,510 --> 00:30:04,480 moment in history was 742 00:30:09,669 --> 00:30:07,520 what we dream of and wish we were now we 743 00:30:12,950 --> 00:30:09,679 had saved helped to save the world 744 00:30:14,070 --> 00:30:12,960 from nazism fascism make it safe for 745 00:30:15,669 --> 00:30:14,080 democracy 746 00:30:17,510 --> 00:30:15,679 we had done something amazing 747 00:30:20,149 --> 00:30:17,520 established the marshall plan 748 00:30:20,870 --> 00:30:20,159 whereby we gave billions of dollars in 749 00:30:23,590 --> 00:30:20,880 our a 750 00:30:25,510 --> 00:30:23,600 of aid to our two biggest enemies the 751 00:30:27,269 --> 00:30:25,520 japanese and the germans nobody ever 752 00:30:30,230 --> 00:30:27,279 done this in history really 753 00:30:30,630 --> 00:30:30,240 and we help them rebuild and we can look 754 00:30:33,909 --> 00:30:30,640 now 755 00:30:36,950 --> 00:30:33,919 and say very decent societies 756 00:30:38,310 --> 00:30:36,960 dedicated to not going to war and taking 757 00:30:41,110 --> 00:30:38,320 care of their people 758 00:30:42,710 --> 00:30:41,120 what we did was remarkable but we knew 759 00:30:46,389 --> 00:30:42,720 we were facing 760 00:30:50,310 --> 00:30:46,399 something might even be worse our 761 00:30:51,830 --> 00:30:50,320 recent allies in the war stalin and the 762 00:30:55,029 --> 00:30:51,840 soviet union 763 00:30:56,310 --> 00:30:55,039 um hardcore communism we were looking 764 00:30:58,870 --> 00:30:56,320 right down the gun barrel 765 00:30:59,990 --> 00:30:58,880 of potential nuclear war and ultimately 766 00:31:02,710 --> 00:31:00,000 that did not happen 767 00:31:03,750 --> 00:31:02,720 we had a cold war instead of a hot war 768 00:31:06,789 --> 00:31:03,760 but 769 00:31:10,549 --> 00:31:06,799 forrest all understood all this and 770 00:31:12,549 --> 00:31:10,559 for the men around truman who knew 771 00:31:15,269 --> 00:31:12,559 knew nobody who had ever had a nervous 772 00:31:17,430 --> 00:31:15,279 breakdown you know maybe guys in combat 773 00:31:18,950 --> 00:31:17,440 cracked up but that was something else 774 00:31:21,269 --> 00:31:18,960 you know nervous breakdowns are for 775 00:31:23,029 --> 00:31:21,279 girls and you know sissies and real men 776 00:31:25,269 --> 00:31:23,039 and certainly a real man like forrest 777 00:31:26,230 --> 00:31:25,279 hall no way but they all knew it 778 00:31:29,430 --> 00:31:26,240 happened 779 00:31:33,830 --> 00:31:29,440 and i am convinced that what got him 780 00:31:37,029 --> 00:31:33,840 killed was their genuine concern 781 00:31:38,310 --> 00:31:37,039 that if he quote unquote recovered and 782 00:31:40,070 --> 00:31:38,320 believe me i mean 783 00:31:43,029 --> 00:31:40,080 well believe the information i put 784 00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:43,039 forward i've seen hospital records 785 00:31:47,350 --> 00:31:45,600 read the commentaries of his doctors of 786 00:31:49,269 --> 00:31:47,360 the people closest to him who visited 787 00:31:52,710 --> 00:31:49,279 him in the hospital his brother 788 00:31:55,990 --> 00:31:52,720 truman etc he was recovering and he was 789 00:31:57,590 --> 00:31:56,000 scheduled for discharge on may 22nd 1949 790 00:31:59,110 --> 00:31:57,600 a sunday 791 00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:59,120 his brother was going to pick him up at 792 00:32:02,789 --> 00:32:00,960 bethesda naval hospital and he was going 793 00:32:05,509 --> 00:32:02,799 to complete his recovery 794 00:32:07,669 --> 00:32:05,519 uh at the estate of a wealthy friend and 795 00:32:09,830 --> 00:32:07,679 then go into private life 796 00:32:10,789 --> 00:32:09,840 but he never he never he never made it 797 00:32:12,789 --> 00:32:10,799 out of the hospital 798 00:32:14,789 --> 00:32:12,799 he didn't well he did but not the way 799 00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:14,799 you'd want to uh yes 800 00:32:20,230 --> 00:32:17,840 but what it came down to was and 801 00:32:21,430 --> 00:32:20,240 it took me years to try to put myself in 802 00:32:23,110 --> 00:32:21,440 their place 803 00:32:26,070 --> 00:32:23,120 for me they were ultimate villains and i 804 00:32:29,029 --> 00:32:26,080 didn't want to try but in their minds 805 00:32:31,669 --> 00:32:29,039 if he quote unquote recovered was wasn't 806 00:32:34,950 --> 00:32:31,679 it possible that he might have a relapse 807 00:32:36,630 --> 00:32:34,960 and if he did allegorically at least he 808 00:32:37,029 --> 00:32:36,640 knew where all the bodies were buried he 809 00:32:39,190 --> 00:32:37,039 knew 810 00:32:42,149 --> 00:32:39,200 everything about the ufo phenomena which 811 00:32:42,789 --> 00:32:42,159 was now classified above top secret they 812 00:32:46,470 --> 00:32:42,799 couldn't 813 00:32:48,549 --> 00:32:46,480 risk it i use an aphorism that i like to 814 00:32:50,070 --> 00:32:48,559 credit to a mafia hitman 815 00:32:51,590 --> 00:32:50,080 before he shoots you in the back of the 816 00:32:54,389 --> 00:32:51,600 head twice with 22 817 00:32:55,750 --> 00:32:54,399 silenced pistol it's nothing personal 818 00:32:57,909 --> 00:32:55,760 it's just business 819 00:32:59,190 --> 00:32:57,919 and i think it came down to that he 820 00:33:01,430 --> 00:32:59,200 couldn't be 821 00:33:03,350 --> 00:33:01,440 allowed to live now there's a lot of 822 00:33:05,750 --> 00:33:03,360 myths and rumors and legends that he was 823 00:33:07,990 --> 00:33:05,760 going to blow up in the ufo story 824 00:33:10,149 --> 00:33:08,000 that uh you know the aliens controlled 825 00:33:10,789 --> 00:33:10,159 his mind and it's wonderfully depicted 826 00:33:18,870 --> 00:33:10,799 in 827 00:33:22,870 --> 00:33:18,880 who knows but what we do know is that 828 00:33:26,230 --> 00:33:22,880 back then at that level of the game 829 00:33:28,070 --> 00:33:26,240 it was just you know a business decision 830 00:33:29,590 --> 00:33:28,080 on a certain level he couldn't they 831 00:33:32,710 --> 00:33:29,600 couldn't take the chance 832 00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:32,720 uh i wish it were more exotic but it's 833 00:33:39,269 --> 00:33:33,120 not 834 00:33:40,310 --> 00:33:39,279 why why didn't you tell the it's a 835 00:33:42,149 --> 00:33:40,320 cliffhanger here 836 00:33:43,590 --> 00:33:42,159 what exactly happened to him because i'm 837 00:33:46,870 --> 00:33:43,600 sure a lot of listeners 838 00:33:49,190 --> 00:33:46,880 don't know the end of the uh episode 839 00:33:50,789 --> 00:33:49,200 yeah well what happened was um and i 840 00:33:52,310 --> 00:33:50,799 realized we're coming into the last 15 841 00:33:55,029 --> 00:33:52,320 minutes here 842 00:33:55,909 --> 00:33:55,039 yeah i often use extra words so i'll 843 00:33:59,269 --> 00:33:55,919 speak quick 844 00:34:01,190 --> 00:33:59,279 um there was a ceremony 845 00:34:03,190 --> 00:34:01,200 when he stepped down at the pentagon and 846 00:34:06,310 --> 00:34:03,200 the second uh secretary 847 00:34:08,310 --> 00:34:06,320 of defense took office in the courtyard 848 00:34:10,310 --> 00:34:08,320 and in the oval office where 849 00:34:12,069 --> 00:34:10,320 president truman awarded him the highest 850 00:34:13,829 --> 00:34:12,079 civilian decoration 851 00:34:15,349 --> 00:34:13,839 presidential medal of freedom or 852 00:34:17,430 --> 00:34:15,359 whatever it was 853 00:34:19,270 --> 00:34:17,440 and we have a film strip of it i mean 854 00:34:22,149 --> 00:34:19,280 it's part of recorded history 855 00:34:23,750 --> 00:34:22,159 there's the president pinning this medal 856 00:34:25,750 --> 00:34:23,760 on his lapel 857 00:34:27,990 --> 00:34:25,760 and what we know is that he then 858 00:34:29,829 --> 00:34:28,000 forestall then step to the microphone 859 00:34:32,230 --> 00:34:29,839 and the room is filled with people all 860 00:34:34,629 --> 00:34:32,240 very adoring and respecting of him 861 00:34:36,710 --> 00:34:34,639 and what he said quote unquote was it's 862 00:34:39,510 --> 00:34:36,720 beyond my 863 00:34:40,069 --> 00:34:39,520 then just stared off into space uh clark 864 00:34:42,710 --> 00:34:40,079 clifford 865 00:34:44,550 --> 00:34:42,720 uh who was a young intern at the 866 00:34:47,589 --> 00:34:44,560 department of defense at the time and 867 00:34:48,310 --> 00:34:47,599 went on to become a future um attorney 868 00:34:50,550 --> 00:34:48,320 general 869 00:34:53,109 --> 00:34:50,560 said it was obvious to everybody that 870 00:34:54,950 --> 00:34:53,119 this man was really in trouble 871 00:34:56,310 --> 00:34:54,960 shortly thereafter he disappeared out of 872 00:34:57,030 --> 00:34:56,320 the room there was a search of the 873 00:34:59,270 --> 00:34:57,040 pentagon 874 00:35:00,550 --> 00:34:59,280 they ultimately found him in his office 875 00:35:02,470 --> 00:35:00,560 staring at the wall 876 00:35:03,829 --> 00:35:02,480 repeating the phrase you are a loyal 877 00:35:07,349 --> 00:35:03,839 fellow 878 00:35:10,630 --> 00:35:07,359 uh nobody knew what to do really and 879 00:35:12,470 --> 00:35:10,640 he was escorted out into the area in 880 00:35:15,510 --> 00:35:12,480 front of the pentagon 881 00:35:18,470 --> 00:35:15,520 where it was vanvar bush mj 12 882 00:35:21,270 --> 00:35:18,480 number two as i recall the president's 883 00:35:24,310 --> 00:35:21,280 science and technology advisor 884 00:35:26,630 --> 00:35:24,320 his um chauffeur saw 885 00:35:29,190 --> 00:35:26,640 forrest all there and gave him a ride 886 00:35:31,190 --> 00:35:29,200 back to his townhouse in georgetown 887 00:35:32,470 --> 00:35:31,200 forest all called epperstadt a very 888 00:35:34,790 --> 00:35:32,480 close friend and the man who had 889 00:35:37,589 --> 00:35:34,800 introduced him to roosevelt 890 00:35:39,030 --> 00:35:37,599 and um told him he felt his whole life 891 00:35:40,390 --> 00:35:39,040 was a failure and he was thinking of 892 00:35:41,990 --> 00:35:40,400 killing himself 893 00:35:44,710 --> 00:35:42,000 eberstadt went to the house he was 894 00:35:47,910 --> 00:35:44,720 shocked at how badly he looked 895 00:35:51,750 --> 00:35:47,920 we know that eberstadt and 896 00:35:53,190 --> 00:35:51,760 robert lovett then deputy secretary of 897 00:35:55,030 --> 00:35:53,200 defense went on to become another 898 00:35:58,310 --> 00:35:55,040 secretary of defense 899 00:36:00,870 --> 00:35:58,320 flew him well um 900 00:36:01,990 --> 00:36:00,880 they flew him to lovett's estate in 901 00:36:05,109 --> 00:36:02,000 hobie sound 902 00:36:07,670 --> 00:36:05,119 florida where 903 00:36:11,109 --> 00:36:07,680 the man was beside himself and they 904 00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:14,630 called uh you know um 905 00:36:19,430 --> 00:36:18,240 bethesda the top psychiatrist for the 906 00:36:22,310 --> 00:36:19,440 navy came 907 00:36:23,589 --> 00:36:22,320 but he refused to examine him that night 908 00:36:26,390 --> 00:36:23,599 because the 909 00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:26,400 psychiatrist that the family chose the 910 00:36:34,069 --> 00:36:28,320 um 911 00:36:36,150 --> 00:36:34,079 uh i'm blanking on his name at the 912 00:36:38,230 --> 00:36:36,160 moment but a very famous clinician 913 00:36:39,589 --> 00:36:38,240 wouldn't be there until the next day 914 00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:39,599 they agreed that he should be 915 00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:41,280 institutionalized and as a former 916 00:36:45,990 --> 00:36:42,960 secretary of navy 917 00:36:47,589 --> 00:36:46,000 um he went to bethesda he literally 918 00:36:49,910 --> 00:36:47,599 tried to throw himself 919 00:36:51,750 --> 00:36:49,920 out of the moving car on the way to the 920 00:36:54,790 --> 00:36:51,760 airfield 921 00:36:57,190 --> 00:36:54,800 for me this is a mark not that he was 922 00:36:59,910 --> 00:36:57,200 you know cuckoo it was a mark that 923 00:37:02,950 --> 00:36:59,920 forrest all knew 924 00:37:05,510 --> 00:37:02,960 that they wanted to kill him 925 00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:05,520 that like a good roman soldier he was 926 00:37:09,430 --> 00:37:06,640 trying to throw himself 927 00:37:11,109 --> 00:37:09,440 on his sword and it's beyond tragic i 928 00:37:13,910 --> 00:37:11,119 document like 929 00:37:16,069 --> 00:37:13,920 three suicide attempts in 48 hours 930 00:37:18,310 --> 00:37:16,079 before he is institutionalized 931 00:37:20,310 --> 00:37:18,320 the first few weeks he is held in his 932 00:37:23,990 --> 00:37:20,320 room where he was the whole time on 933 00:37:26,230 --> 00:37:24,000 the 16th floor 24-hour day marine guard 934 00:37:28,630 --> 00:37:26,240 shift and three eight-hour shifts 935 00:37:30,390 --> 00:37:28,640 and then after a few weeks they simply 936 00:37:32,790 --> 00:37:30,400 begin to treat him 937 00:37:34,069 --> 00:37:32,800 for depression in the manner prescribed 938 00:37:36,069 --> 00:37:34,079 at that time 939 00:37:37,510 --> 00:37:36,079 i think we can assume safely that none 940 00:37:39,030 --> 00:37:37,520 of the doctors treating him knew 941 00:37:40,950 --> 00:37:39,040 anything about 942 00:37:43,670 --> 00:37:40,960 the flying sausage or the cover-up or 943 00:37:44,230 --> 00:37:43,680 whatever they just treated him as a vip 944 00:37:47,990 --> 00:37:44,240 patient 945 00:37:50,710 --> 00:37:48,000 and uh he started to respond uh 946 00:37:51,270 --> 00:37:50,720 regained his will to live um gained back 947 00:37:52,870 --> 00:37:51,280 weight 948 00:37:56,069 --> 00:37:52,880 uh started to take pride in his 949 00:37:59,109 --> 00:37:56,079 appearance uh was looking forward to 950 00:38:02,150 --> 00:37:59,119 completing his recovery privately 951 00:38:05,430 --> 00:38:02,160 and that's when the forces that be 952 00:38:07,910 --> 00:38:05,440 had to finish the job for him so 953 00:38:09,270 --> 00:38:07,920 i know the story has been spun a billion 954 00:38:13,349 --> 00:38:09,280 times and 955 00:38:16,710 --> 00:38:13,359 um it's it's that tragically 956 00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:16,720 simple i think after 30 years of looking 957 00:38:21,910 --> 00:38:18,400 at it from every angle that i 958 00:38:23,589 --> 00:38:21,920 can what i do in the documentary 959 00:38:25,990 --> 00:38:23,599 that i won't have time to go into here 960 00:38:30,069 --> 00:38:26,000 but that i'm really proud of 961 00:38:32,150 --> 00:38:30,079 is i revert to that little lawyer 962 00:38:33,349 --> 00:38:32,160 we all have one living in our head on 963 00:38:36,470 --> 00:38:33,359 the left side 964 00:38:39,910 --> 00:38:36,480 and i present the evidence and some of 965 00:38:43,829 --> 00:38:41,990 researchers investigators journalists 966 00:38:45,910 --> 00:38:43,839 who came before me 967 00:38:47,270 --> 00:38:45,920 did an extraordinary job of putting the 968 00:38:50,470 --> 00:38:47,280 pieces together 969 00:38:52,390 --> 00:38:50,480 but it's never been fully brought out in 970 00:38:55,190 --> 00:38:52,400 a cohesive manner although i've read 971 00:38:57,349 --> 00:38:55,200 many good essays on it over the decades 972 00:38:58,710 --> 00:38:57,359 i think this is the first documentary 973 00:39:03,109 --> 00:38:58,720 even though it's a modest one 974 00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:03,119 on him and once he was gone 975 00:39:10,230 --> 00:39:06,720 um two days later um a 976 00:39:11,910 --> 00:39:10,240 full military funeral at arlington 977 00:39:16,069 --> 00:39:11,920 national cemetery 978 00:39:19,430 --> 00:39:16,079 5 000 in attendance 19 howitzer salute 979 00:39:20,310 --> 00:39:19,440 president truman reads a eulogy and he's 980 00:39:23,750 --> 00:39:20,320 forgotten 981 00:39:27,510 --> 00:39:23,760 by americans over the next few years 982 00:39:29,589 --> 00:39:27,520 and there is no reason to not accept 983 00:39:31,270 --> 00:39:29,599 why they didn't accept i mean why they 984 00:39:33,829 --> 00:39:31,280 did accept so easily 985 00:39:34,710 --> 00:39:33,839 that he had committed suicide he was 986 00:39:37,510 --> 00:39:34,720 considered 987 00:39:38,310 --> 00:39:37,520 casualty what date was that that he is 988 00:39:45,270 --> 00:39:38,320 he 989 00:39:47,270 --> 00:39:45,280 of may 22nd 1949 which was a sunday 990 00:39:50,470 --> 00:39:47,280 morning 991 00:39:53,510 --> 00:39:50,480 and i think was buried on 992 00:39:55,750 --> 00:39:53,520 the 25th perhaps 993 00:39:57,430 --> 00:39:55,760 even my mom remembering back to those 994 00:39:58,950 --> 00:39:57,440 days when i was thinking about doing 995 00:40:01,030 --> 00:39:58,960 this project but 996 00:40:04,710 --> 00:40:01,040 you know i my parents are wonderful 997 00:40:07,910 --> 00:40:04,720 people and remember this time well 998 00:40:11,030 --> 00:40:07,920 she said for me 999 00:40:13,270 --> 00:40:11,040 this was for me as a high school student 1000 00:40:15,349 --> 00:40:13,280 what the murder of john kennedy was for 1001 00:40:18,950 --> 00:40:15,359 you as a boy 1002 00:40:21,510 --> 00:40:18,960 we love this guy and again we felt that 1003 00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:21,520 he had genuinely helped us win the war 1004 00:40:26,470 --> 00:40:24,160 and i really looked up to him as a 1005 00:40:30,069 --> 00:40:26,480 teenager 1006 00:40:31,829 --> 00:40:30,079 now was there ever any kind of uh 1007 00:40:33,589 --> 00:40:31,839 congressional hearing or anything on 1008 00:40:36,630 --> 00:40:33,599 this well what happened to him 1009 00:40:39,750 --> 00:40:36,640 was the navy of course was compelled to 1010 00:40:41,910 --> 00:40:39,760 conduct a quote-unquote investigation 1011 00:40:43,910 --> 00:40:41,920 which officially they said they ended 1012 00:40:47,510 --> 00:40:43,920 after doing extensive 1013 00:40:50,230 --> 00:40:47,520 investigation for five freaking days 1014 00:40:52,309 --> 00:40:50,240 and what we now know of course was that 1015 00:40:54,150 --> 00:40:52,319 it was a much deeper investigation 1016 00:40:56,870 --> 00:40:54,160 except that it was classified for 1017 00:41:00,470 --> 00:40:56,880 decades it was released 1018 00:41:03,750 --> 00:41:00,480 about early in the 2000s 1019 00:41:06,470 --> 00:41:03,760 it's long it's very very guarded but 1020 00:41:09,670 --> 00:41:06,480 it's fascinating interviewing witnesses 1021 00:41:13,030 --> 00:41:09,680 it goes to extraordinary 1022 00:41:13,349 --> 00:41:13,040 lengths to say nobody was responsible 1023 00:41:16,470 --> 00:41:13,359 for 1024 00:41:18,870 --> 00:41:16,480 anything it was just this freak thing 1025 00:41:19,589 --> 00:41:18,880 happens all the time yes it looked like 1026 00:41:23,910 --> 00:41:19,599 he was 1027 00:41:27,349 --> 00:41:23,920 almost fully recovered but he found the 1028 00:41:29,510 --> 00:41:27,359 door to his room accidentally 1029 00:41:30,710 --> 00:41:29,520 unlocked at a quarter of two in the 1030 00:41:33,109 --> 00:41:30,720 morning and 1031 00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:33,119 decided to walk across the hallway to an 1032 00:41:35,990 --> 00:41:35,040 efficiency kitchen with an unsecured 1033 00:41:39,030 --> 00:41:36,000 window 1034 00:41:40,790 --> 00:41:39,040 and in that eight seconds he went into a 1035 00:41:44,069 --> 00:41:40,800 suicidal depression 1036 00:41:47,109 --> 00:41:44,079 took the sash off his bathrobe 1037 00:41:48,309 --> 00:41:47,119 tied one end very tight around his own 1038 00:41:50,870 --> 00:41:48,319 neck 1039 00:41:52,069 --> 00:41:50,880 the uh original report which was 1040 00:41:53,829 --> 00:41:52,079 dismissed the original 1041 00:41:55,270 --> 00:41:53,839 allegations was that he tied the other 1042 00:41:58,069 --> 00:41:55,280 end to the radiator 1043 00:42:00,710 --> 00:41:58,079 in front of the window but that was even 1044 00:42:02,710 --> 00:42:00,720 uh dismissed within 48 hours by the 1045 00:42:03,910 --> 00:42:02,720 new york times a terrific lead 1046 00:42:05,589 --> 00:42:03,920 investigator 1047 00:42:07,190 --> 00:42:05,599 it wasn't tied to anything we have to 1048 00:42:09,030 --> 00:42:07,200 believe that he 1049 00:42:11,109 --> 00:42:09,040 wanted well he wanted to hang himself 1050 00:42:12,870 --> 00:42:11,119 out of window no he just wanted to 1051 00:42:14,390 --> 00:42:12,880 tie the thing around his neck lower 1052 00:42:16,150 --> 00:42:14,400 himself out the window 1053 00:42:18,630 --> 00:42:16,160 then change his mind how do we know he 1054 00:42:21,510 --> 00:42:18,640 changed his mind 1055 00:42:25,109 --> 00:42:21,520 fingernail scratches all over the 1056 00:42:29,030 --> 00:42:25,119 outside window jam on the 16th floor 1057 00:42:29,670 --> 00:42:29,040 that is brutal and that is not some 1058 00:42:32,470 --> 00:42:29,680 arcane 1059 00:42:33,910 --> 00:42:32,480 fact i had to research for years that 1060 00:42:36,950 --> 00:42:33,920 was in the coverage 1061 00:42:40,550 --> 00:42:36,960 of the um i think it was 1062 00:42:41,670 --> 00:42:40,560 may 23rd the next day or the day after 1063 00:42:45,510 --> 00:42:41,680 that 1064 00:42:46,950 --> 00:42:45,520 lead investigative article by the lead 1065 00:42:49,829 --> 00:42:46,960 investigative journalist for the new 1066 00:42:53,829 --> 00:42:49,839 york times it was 1067 00:42:57,589 --> 00:42:53,839 so obvious that he was forced 1068 00:43:01,430 --> 00:42:57,599 out of that window and 1069 00:43:03,270 --> 00:43:01,440 that would mean that at least two men 1070 00:43:04,550 --> 00:43:03,280 properly credentialed entered the 1071 00:43:06,710 --> 00:43:04,560 hospital building 1072 00:43:08,390 --> 00:43:06,720 certainly sometime after midnight could 1073 00:43:11,190 --> 00:43:08,400 have been after one 1074 00:43:13,510 --> 00:43:11,200 um maybe in white coats maybe with name 1075 00:43:16,550 --> 00:43:13,520 tags made their way up to the 16th floor 1076 00:43:18,870 --> 00:43:16,560 without any problem with security 1077 00:43:20,550 --> 00:43:18,880 that his attendant who normally would 1078 00:43:21,589 --> 00:43:20,560 have been on that shift who was a young 1079 00:43:24,390 --> 00:43:21,599 marine 1080 00:43:25,510 --> 00:43:24,400 who forestall had gotten particularly 1081 00:43:27,349 --> 00:43:25,520 close to 1082 00:43:29,430 --> 00:43:27,359 over the preceding weeks in fact there 1083 00:43:31,349 --> 00:43:29,440 was some talk that 1084 00:43:32,630 --> 00:43:31,359 after he was discharged he was going to 1085 00:43:34,390 --> 00:43:32,640 hire this man 1086 00:43:36,230 --> 00:43:34,400 after he left the service to be his 1087 00:43:38,470 --> 00:43:36,240 secretary that's how close he 1088 00:43:40,390 --> 00:43:38,480 started to think of him like a son the 1089 00:43:42,630 --> 00:43:40,400 official story is he simply didn't show 1090 00:43:45,270 --> 00:43:42,640 up to work that night maybe he was drunk 1091 00:43:47,109 --> 00:43:45,280 sorry it would have never happened um an 1092 00:43:48,630 --> 00:43:47,119 attendant named harbison a regular 1093 00:43:50,069 --> 00:43:48,640 hospital attendant was charged with 1094 00:43:53,030 --> 00:43:50,079 checking in on him 1095 00:43:54,630 --> 00:43:53,040 and i in no way mean to suggest even 1096 00:43:57,990 --> 00:43:54,640 that harbison was 1097 00:44:00,150 --> 00:43:58,000 you know some dupe or you know 1098 00:44:01,190 --> 00:44:00,160 uh evil person he was just stuck with 1099 00:44:03,349 --> 00:44:01,200 the job 1100 00:44:04,950 --> 00:44:03,359 whether or not he forgot to lock that 1101 00:44:07,750 --> 00:44:04,960 door or after he left 1102 00:44:09,670 --> 00:44:07,760 it was unlocked the other thing is we 1103 00:44:12,470 --> 00:44:09,680 have a few photos of the room 1104 00:44:13,510 --> 00:44:12,480 taken within we know the photos were 1105 00:44:16,950 --> 00:44:13,520 taken 1106 00:44:19,030 --> 00:44:16,960 within a few hours of uh the murder 1107 00:44:20,950 --> 00:44:19,040 and it's the room he lived in day and 1108 00:44:22,390 --> 00:44:20,960 night for six weeks 1109 00:44:24,309 --> 00:44:22,400 on the surface you look at it and go 1110 00:44:26,470 --> 00:44:24,319 what's the problem the problem is 1111 00:44:28,390 --> 00:44:26,480 it looks like nobody's ever lived there 1112 00:44:30,630 --> 00:44:28,400 there's not an item of clothing 1113 00:44:31,670 --> 00:44:30,640 he was a pipe smoker there were no books 1114 00:44:34,069 --> 00:44:31,680 there was 1115 00:44:36,710 --> 00:44:34,079 no nothing the bed was perfectly made 1116 00:44:39,829 --> 00:44:36,720 what there was on the carpet 1117 00:44:42,309 --> 00:44:39,839 was part of a broken glass 1118 00:44:44,069 --> 00:44:42,319 and that is one of the few photos just 1119 00:44:45,750 --> 00:44:44,079 without any commentary that is one of 1120 00:44:49,190 --> 00:44:45,760 the very few photos 1121 00:44:52,390 --> 00:44:49,200 in the navy's investigative folder 1122 00:44:54,710 --> 00:44:52,400 in which i i show um again 1123 00:44:55,589 --> 00:44:54,720 we're dealing with what would be called 1124 00:44:59,030 --> 00:44:55,599 legally 1125 00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:01,990 it's all circumstantial evidence but 1126 00:45:06,309 --> 00:45:04,000 there is such a preponderance of it and 1127 00:45:09,030 --> 00:45:06,319 it fits so carefully together 1128 00:45:10,309 --> 00:45:09,040 that i think if this could be taken 1129 00:45:12,309 --> 00:45:10,319 before a jury 1130 00:45:13,829 --> 00:45:12,319 they would conclude beyond reasonable 1131 00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:13,839 doubt that there was 1132 00:45:18,150 --> 00:45:17,520 reason to you know investigate this as 1133 00:45:21,750 --> 00:45:18,160 the homicide 1134 00:45:25,030 --> 00:45:23,190 we've only got about two minutes left 1135 00:45:27,349 --> 00:45:25,040 tim so make it quick 1136 00:45:29,030 --> 00:45:27,359 no no i was just going to say you know 1137 00:45:31,589 --> 00:45:29,040 this is not the only case 1138 00:45:33,349 --> 00:45:31,599 where something very suspicious that 1139 00:45:36,710 --> 00:45:33,359 happened it was also the 1140 00:45:37,349 --> 00:45:36,720 case of frank olson oh sure yeah who 1141 00:45:40,950 --> 00:45:37,359 went out 1142 00:45:42,309 --> 00:45:40,960 a window and and tim wrote a book a few 1143 00:45:45,190 --> 00:45:42,319 years ago on 1144 00:45:46,790 --> 00:45:45,200 mysterious assassinations and deaths 1145 00:45:48,309 --> 00:45:46,800 involving the government and a lot of 1146 00:45:51,990 --> 00:45:48,319 that will be in our 1147 00:45:55,270 --> 00:45:52,000 cia matrix in the new york state 1148 00:45:59,270 --> 00:45:55,280 and anyway peter tell us where 1149 00:46:03,990 --> 00:46:03,109 right now um my um website is woefully 1150 00:46:07,870 --> 00:46:04,000 out of date but 1151 00:46:10,630 --> 00:46:07,880 it is my name and my home state 1152 00:46:14,470 --> 00:46:10,640 peterrobinsny.com i will have 1153 00:46:16,630 --> 00:46:14,480 a new website up in the next few months 1154 00:46:19,190 --> 00:46:16,640 and a couple of surprises to pass on to 1155 00:46:21,190 --> 00:46:19,200 you guys within the next month of um 1156 00:46:22,550 --> 00:46:21,200 turning a page in my career and moving 1157 00:46:24,550 --> 00:46:22,560 on to 1158 00:46:26,870 --> 00:46:24,560 something that i hope will allow me to 1159 00:46:30,069 --> 00:46:26,880 do what i've been doing for decades 1160 00:46:32,390 --> 00:46:30,079 but reach a wider audience and i'm 1161 00:46:35,589 --> 00:46:32,400 really quite excited about it otherwise 1162 00:46:37,109 --> 00:46:35,599 visit me on facebook where i always post 1163 00:46:38,550 --> 00:46:37,119 what i'm doing i was going to say where 1164 00:46:39,430 --> 00:46:38,560 i'm going to be appearing next i'll be 1165 00:46:44,470 --> 00:46:39,440 appearing next 1166 00:46:47,750 --> 00:46:46,309 you know we gotta laugh at this stuff or 1167 00:46:50,150 --> 00:46:47,760 it's just you know 1168 00:46:51,190 --> 00:46:50,160 boy oh boy yeah but i'm just glad you 1169 00:46:53,990 --> 00:46:51,200 guys yeah 1170 00:46:55,109 --> 00:46:54,000 we got to do is doing well and i'm doing 1171 00:46:58,790 --> 00:46:55,119 well up here in 1172 00:47:01,030 --> 00:46:58,800 the countryside zoom i say 1173 00:47:02,950 --> 00:47:01,040 uh anyway don't forget to uh go to our 1174 00:47:06,550 --> 00:47:02,960 youtube page while it's still 1175 00:47:10,230 --> 00:47:06,560 up that's mr ufo's secret files 1176 00:47:13,670 --> 00:47:10,240 and you can find me as uh and tim uh 1177 00:47:16,390 --> 00:47:13,680 on uh facebook but don't mention the 1178 00:47:19,870 --> 00:47:16,400 conspiracy journal because we'll be uh 1179 00:47:21,589 --> 00:47:19,880 taken down uh again and uh go to 1180 00:47:23,910 --> 00:47:21,599 amazon.com and 1181 00:47:25,670 --> 00:47:23,920 type in my name timothy beckley and 1182 00:47:26,230 --> 00:47:25,680 you'll find hundreds of books because we 1183 00:47:28,790 --> 00:47:26,240 got 1184 00:47:34,150 --> 00:47:28,800 almost 400 now i believe something like 1185 00:47:37,510 --> 00:47:36,230 you've been listening to exploring the 1186 00:47:40,309 --> 00:47:37,520 bazaar 1187 00:47:41,829 --> 00:47:40,319 with hosts timothy beckley and tim 1188 00:47:43,990 --> 00:47:41,839 schwartz 1189 00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:44,000 they're taking back the night by jetting 1190 00:47:48,390 --> 00:47:46,319 non-stop across the cosmos 1191 00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:48,400 in search of the truly bizarre and 1192 00:47:53,510 --> 00:47:50,160 totally unexplained 1193 00:47:55,990 --> 00:47:53,520 with you as their coal miners thursday 1194 00:47:59,190 --> 00:47:56,000 nights at 7 p.m pacific 1195 00:48:01,829 --> 00:47:59,200 10 p.m eastern on the kcor 1196 00:48:04,710 --> 00:48:01,839 digital radio network for more 1197 00:48:06,870 --> 00:48:04,720 information on exploring the bazaars 1198 00:48:09,670 --> 00:48:06,880 and hosts timothy beckley and tim 1199 00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:09,680 schwartz check out their kcor digital 1200 00:48:14,950 --> 00:48:11,760 radio network 1201 00:48:18,790 --> 00:48:14,960 follow their youtube channel at mr